Creativity the showdown

[ninjamonkie]

Chance, please clearify: are you saying that i called you a sellout and that i was immature? And i don't really get what you mean is immature calling someone a sellout. Is it that the sellout is being picked on?

Then it seems that everybody has misunderstood me. A sellout isn't one who makes money, but one who changes art to fit the money source's will, so that person will get more money. Sure ppl have to do it, and that guy, and he can't, what about... It's very hard to not be a sellout and some have to be one. That doesn't change what a sellout is.

Chance, again, do you mean where i live or where i'm from? why?

[eddie]

why thanks Chance, it was a brilliant night, Im looking forward to the Deadlights Premier.

Oh, the bats left us. Said we tied him down, wanted a job with less strings attached.

[SouthWalesFilmClub]

Chance, I envy what you're doing and I wish you all the luck!

By the way, does the pub mind you using their phone line to hook up to the net from your lap top?

[Chance1234]

cue drumroll and cymbal crash for eddie

lol - right Ninja monkie iam not having a dig at you or anything im trying to be generic in my argument, rheotrical, metaphoriaclallly(or how ever you spell it) etc etc im not attacking you !

re read the post again THE ARGUMENT, thats the ARGUMENT not you, but the ARGUMENT Is an immature and really crap argument.

as i said its like someone calling you a w*nker jsut cos you dont support the same football team or something, also the context in what is was being used.

Ok firslty we seem to have two ideas on what a sell out is and im sure other people do to ! surprise ! hell Texas is a sellout at wembley tonight

but going back to a sellout as an argument even by your own definition it has no definition and no definition in an argument

firstly as agreed money has nothign to do with creativity etc and that creativity isnt the only thing that makes a film, also changing the art to fit the moneys source hang on a sec isnt that the no budget phiospilly work with what you have got ? you telling me that someone on a no-budget film can get everything they want in there film with no money ? you saying they dont have to compromsie ? and there is no such thing as truly no budget anyway, everything has a price attached,as i said capitalistic world the camera cost somethign the tape costs something , your time cost something etc etc

so by your own definition we are all sell outs

so as an argument its a bit like me after being smacked in the face calling the guy a homo sapian

in fact your all a bunch of homosapians go back to where you came from !


the where you from was jsut curiosity nothing else, jsut that you didnyt get what a t*sser was(thats not aimed at you just wondering if thats just an english phrase ) and your language etc, im not going to chase after you with a chainsaw or anything !

Chance

Ps. the pubs got a Pubnet machine, ?1 for ten mins but a bit slow. the only others are in the station there quicker but some guy keeps telling me hes just got out of prison and needs ?1.50 to get home, funnily enough hes been back in prison about oh 10 times this week so far, i bet you all really wanted to know that

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ights_trailer1.rm>

[This message has been edited by Chance1234 (edited February 08, 2001).]

[ninjamonkie]

Good answer this time. I'm not saying a sellout is one who compromises. A sellout is one who changes his art (compromises), to be not as good as he could make it (to his own point of view), cause he gets more money.

Let me give you an example. You've probably seen the doors film. When TV asks Jim Morrison to change the word "higher" to "better" (or some other crap) in a song, he refuses. He doesn't wanna change "just a word", even tho the consequences. This is a perfect example that Morrison was not a sellout, but the others were (since they wanted to change the lyrics).

I don't think anyone can make a film to be as they first thought, no matter how much money and time is being spent. If one tho compromises by letting occurances be opportunites, one could make a much more complex and diverse piece. Of course one need to compromise with the others working along side, but not to change it a way to make it more suitable for a larger audiance to get more money (which is what a sellout does).

And still, yes almost everybody is a sellout since we all live in a capitalistic world. Even Lynch could be (OMG), but i don't know, maybe he was given artistic freedom.

About the pond again, i was born and raised in sweden, and i've lived and am living outside sweden.

[eddie]

Surely a sell out is some-one who says one thing, and then does another. Usually for the money. Such as professing that low budget film making is the TRUTH and the BEST way to go, only to grab the first opportunity to plow money (when it finally comes) into a film, or to just get a job in Hollywierd and make standard conventional stuff.

I sometimes find it strange that someone who makes lots of money, isn't a sellout, because they never professed anything else, other than wanting to make money.

So then you can only 'sellout' if have (or had) a conscience, which is sadly paradoxical and about face.

I always think of Bill Burroughs, I saw an advert for Nike trainers, he was wearing a pair. But this wasnt a 'sell out', because I dont think he ever bought into that Anti- Advertising, anti-money thing, a beatnick throughout, who couldnt 'sell out' what he said transcended mere money matters....it was a commentary on the sickness of the soul of the world.

(or something like that)

Whereas Bob Dylan, one of the best lyricists and folk revolutionarys ever, finally succumbed to the big record deals. The world moved on and he was too big a name to tour the world doing small folk gigs for the rest of his life. So he embraced the cash and his songs were never as good again.

(whereas Roy Harper - he never has and never will)

Blah blah blah blah blah

[SouthWalesFilmClub]

I thought a "sell-out" was someone who did exceptionally well at the box office.

[k_wor.mytree]

OK.
I think that you are all getting obsessed with the notion of "Selling Out". I wonder if a producer came forward with a large budget and/or a 'comercial' script, would your creative values still hold true. I think not. The point about film making, at any and all levels, is that you make a film that you think is good and hope that others do too, If some comes forward with something bigger and better then your perspective changes. While we struggle with premiere to edit our latest 15min epic, we all feel a sense of creative satisfaction, but at the same time dream of doing something bigger. but bigger means more money, more money means the production has to sell, to sell you have to be comercial. Its the nature of the beast. As to whether a comercial film can be creative art, ask Ridley Scott. For years hes been doing stylish movies, yet most of his films have been comercial successes.
Comercialism may be a four letter word to all you 'Artist' but it is the backbone of the film industry, in ANY country. Hollywood may have started the high concept type of film, but its about time that British film maker started to stop looking down their noses at the Popcorn Blockbuster, and started to take a leaf out of their books.
Join with me now.. Say it loud, I'M COMERCIAL AND I'M PROUD!!!

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Its MY TREE and I'll get out of it if I wish.

[SouthWalesFilmClub]

Well Steve Spielberg is the only reason I got interested in filmmaking. His movies are true cinema. Can you believe he made "Duel" at age 23 and "Jaws" at 26? Shit, my time is running out!!